tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4168390023557708961.post8773365942143829164..comments2019-03-04T18:54:01.162+08:00Comments on Chinese Law and Society: Why Tiger Moms are Great, but Not Great for DemocracySeth Gurgelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03722652884203904191noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4168390023557708961.post-8770411627481795492019-03-04T18:54:01.162+08:002019-03-04T18:54:01.162+08:00Yes i am totally agreed with this article and i ju...Yes i am totally agreed with this article and i just want say that this article is very nice and very informative article.I will make sure to be reading your blog more. You made a good point but I can't help but wonder, what about the other side? !!!!!!Thanks <a href="https://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/member15472.htm" rel="nofollow">Professional Chinese translation service</a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05329838614307656485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4168390023557708961.post-3479561458093626972013-02-15T08:17:18.557+08:002013-02-15T08:17:18.557+08:00Shanghai ranks #1 in the world, HK #2 in PISA scor...Shanghai ranks #1 in the world, HK #2 in PISA scores. China itself is in the top 10. I'm not so surprised. I saw an English class with 12-year-olds in western Gansu. A poor village. The kids' pronunciation, cadence, and expressiveness was awesomely good. Better than many of our inner-city schools in that regard.Godfree Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06178509602799506224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4168390023557708961.post-29311533204483223932013-02-15T07:54:28.116+08:002013-02-15T07:54:28.116+08:00Thanks for putting your thoughts into words. Thanks for putting your thoughts into words. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03286548899154996092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4168390023557708961.post-30463359139338862122011-07-19T08:18:43.315+08:002011-07-19T08:18:43.315+08:00I agree with you on the conservative nature of par...I agree with you on the conservative nature of parenting, I noticed it in myself when I was teaching. I also like the parallel of us being "born-yesterday" and thus failing to understand a two-thousand-year-old phenomenon. <br /><br />Plenty for each side to learn from the other, and that's already happening, although I'm a bit incredulous about dramatic changes happening in Shanghai education or elsewhere. The changes are happening, if at all, in large part because the city's watching a large section of its wealthy population sending their kids abroad, or simply immigrating altogether. Again, if we build a decent democracy with robust education, they (the Chinese elite) will come, and are already coming. <br /><br />I'm less worried about our grade school test scores than I am worried about us failing to learn as much from East Asian societies as they've learned from us.Seth Gurgelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03722652884203904191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4168390023557708961.post-46667350003411190122011-07-18T20:26:32.179+08:002011-07-18T20:26:32.179+08:00Agreed, and I think you're seeing support for ...Agreed, and I think you're seeing support for that point of view amongst progressive parents in Shanghai. They are getting some traction with the educational authorities there, too, to everyone's credit.<br /><br />What is so hard for us born-yesterday Westerners to grasp is the weight and momentum of the traditional Chinese approach to education. Imagine having 2,000 years of astonishing accomplishment (see Needham's history of Chinese technology, among many others) looming over every parental decision!<br /><br />My personal efforts at educational reform suggest that parenting rivals agriculture for conservatism, regardless of culture or nationality...Godfree Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06178509602799506224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4168390023557708961.post-69197566966822282382011-07-18T09:11:50.167+08:002011-07-18T09:11:50.167+08:00Thanks Godfree, I'd be very interested in seei...Thanks Godfree, I'd be very interested in seeing your study, more transnational education surveys need to be done. <br /><br />"Pulling ahead" in what terms? It seems that every time I try to get out of doing the China-US comparison in material or state power terms, "they pull me back in." I'm trying to suggest that we take Athens as a model for development, not because it will "outlast anyone" but simply because I see it as a good, something perhaps akin to Blake's "joy."<br /><br />Please note that I take no issue with raising educational standards or five-year-olds reading, what I take issue with is tunnel-vision, rote-based education for purely materialistic ends. There are better ways to get "return on the investment," but they take sophisticated parenting, teaching, and education methods. It's easier to force a child to do four or five hours of math facts and English flashcards a day than to create a complex, rich environment that inspires more synaptic firing, teaching the basic facts while simultaneously equipping students for higher-level thought (thoughts of justice) and a lifetime of curiosity, skills critical for a healthy democracy.Seth Gurgelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03722652884203904191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4168390023557708961.post-5767300286911054472011-07-18T02:14:52.190+08:002011-07-18T02:14:52.190+08:00Bravo for taking a swing at this very big cross-cu...Bravo for taking a swing at this very big cross-cultural issue. Most commentators have contented themselves with shallow generalities and equally shallow fear-mongering.<br /><br />Having taught kids in (Confucian) Japan and (formally) democratic USA I find plenty to agree with on both sides of your argument. But I do have disagreements about the outcomes you imply, and the correlations you imply.<br /><br />My doctoral studies focused on experimental educational systems and I saw some public schools so good that most teachers and parents refused to believe they existed. The kids they produced were exemplary both personally and academically.<br /><br />But I also met products of the Confucian approach that you describe, and they were equally outstanding. And I saw a strong correlation between how consistently parents forced their children to study and how successful those children were, just as Tiger Mom was by her parents.<br /><br />In the Confucian world there IS no childhood after age 5, and there is no individualism as we know it: there is profound responsibility to (extended) family, to society, and to the Nation. I am writing this in Buddhist Thailand but the underlying culture here Is Confucian and a few feet from me, on a Saturday afternoon, sit children poring over their books--with not a parent in sight. All of them revere their parents and literally strive to do what their parents direct them to do.<br /><br />This picture may seem grim and repressive to us Westerners raised, as we were in times and places of abundance which we attributed to democracy and individualistic Capitalism. But as we now embark on a period of resource scarcity my guess is that our Confucian cousins will out-innovate and outlast us. The signs of this transition are already abundantly clear.<br /><br />The verdict on these two approaches will never be finally rendered, I hope. But to date it appears that the Confucian is once again pulling aheadGodfree Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06178509602799506224noreply@blogger.com